i have >> welcome to huckabee from the the fox studios in new york city. this week's show is different, of course it has to be in light of the horrific shootings in aurora, colorado. a senseless, cowardly act was the news we awoke to. a theater is usually a place to escape from reality, but for the people packed in a movie theater in aurora, they confronted the harsh and savage reality of a person who planned to inflict as much carnage as possible on totally innocent and unsuspecting strangers, this is impossible to understand except we live

in a world where there's evil. i work and talk radio and tv news, and going nonstop with the story, whether there's anything new to report or not, grabbed the attention and speculation with the coverage and when there's nothing new to tell. the options are repeat what you know or bring on people who speculate and why it happened. the truth is, we simply don't know, why any person would reach deep enough into the forces of darkness, to decide to kill innocent people, simply watching a movie. we just don't know. but because it's so very out of the ordinary, we turn a hot spotlight and then we bring it to you, around the clock. and well, here is what i do know. i know that i won't mention the shooter's name on radio or on television because i've got no interest in helping him become a celebrity. i know that he's a coward, he's mentally deranged and his actions were monstrous, i'd rather talk about the victims and the lives they lived and

the families that they left grieving than to give attention to a person who doesn't deserve attention and who should simply be called the murderer. i know that having a dozen people murdered in a movie theater gets our attention because thank god, it doesn't happen every day. but, one million innocent and healthy young unborn babies die in their mother's wombs from abortions. and we pay scant attention. and we lost troops in the iraq and afghanistan and we hardly notice the numbers. and while we immediately cry for laws to address mass murder, when is the last time you heard someone say we need today deal with the mental illnesses resulting in suicides, especially and more tragically among our military veterans. i'm not attempting to disparage the attention given to the aurora theater shooting. we should all pray for the victims, their families and

friends and all for our help in the physical and emotional survival of others. and a convenience store clerk who died at the hands of abuser, we don't have a crime problem or a gun problem or even a violence problem, what we have is a sin problem. since we've ordered god out of our schools, the military and public conversations we shouldn't act so surprised when all hell breaks loose. [applause] well, we want to go to our fox news correspondent in aurora with the latest. >> governor the president has come down to support those dealing with the tragedy in aurora, we're getting the closest look now at the suspect's apartment here and take a look right now, you can see some of the windows knocked out yesterday as authorities, the fbi, the atf and the aurora police department meticulously went

through the apartment and defused the threat and got the evidence they needed. they took the explosive devices all basically connect today a circuit board in the kitchen. once that circuit board was taken out by a water bomb, they took the devices and put them into a dump truck filled with sand to ensure a soft ride and took them out to the east part of town and exploded those devices and burned them to ensure there was no more threat. back here they were continuing their investigation and they've got the computer tower out here from james holmes, and a lot of evidence they say shows that this man planned this attack for months and you can see the leftover remnants here from what was taken out. three different explosions, the water bomb and two smaller ones and see the glass here, part of the window frame is still here and the investigation here does continue and they do say, again, they have enough evidence to prove this suspect had done this for at least a month and a half or two months as planned, as the investigation goes on of the the people here in aurora are dealing with a horrible tragedy, governor. >> mike: i want to talk to

alex milano, 19 years old and he was in the movie theater with his 14-year-old sister. thank you for joining us today. >> no problem. >> mike: you and your sister were in the movie theater when he commotion, did you think it was part of the movie or did you know something was not quite right? >> i started to think that something might not be right, but at the first time i heard it, i thought fireworks, i thought special effects. you know, midnight showing of a much anticipated movie, why wouldn't they? >> was there panic in the theater where you were? you were in the theater next door, is that correct? >> yes, theater eight. i was actually across the hallway from theater nine. >> and was there a panic even in theater eight, the one adjacent to the one where the shooting took place? >> there wasn't a panic until a couple of people actually got up and started to run out of the theater. after the first, what i thought were fireworks went off. >> and alex--

>> and i noticed at that they were actually -- sorry. >> mike: what was your first instinct, was it to get out of there or protect your sister, what was the first thing you thought and how did you act upon that? >> i didn't think. to be honest with you, i did not think at all. i just did. everything happened in a blink of an eye for me. i grabbed my sister's purse, i grabbed my bag, i grabbed her arm and we were gone. >> and you got completely out of the theater. when did you realize that this was not fireworks, but this was an incredibly horrific scene and that people were dying? >> about five minutes prior to leaving the theater, that i was in, i actually saw the bullets rip through the wall in the lower right of the theater and that's when other people ran out, holding themselves, and moaning in pain. >> your sister, i understand she's been very severely traumatized by this whole experience, is she handling it better today?

is she getting able to talk about it and process what she saw and what she experienced? >> to be honest with you, she won't talk to anyone else about me-- or about it without me there. or just talk to me about it in general. >> you know, i know this has been an incredibly painful situation for you and your family. what did your parents say to you and your close friends when they realized that you and your sister were okay? >> how did they respond? >> my mom was actually pretty frantic, over the phone. first time i talked to her. she was at the hospital with my younger brother, he had actually gotten his appendix removed the day before. >> he might have been with you otherwise, huh. >> yeah, well not the little brother, but i know my parents would have been. >> well, now what? he may grow up being glad he doesn't have an appendix and able to escape the horrible thing that you and your sister

had to go through. our thoughts and prayers are with you, alex and i hop you let your sister know there's people all over this country that pray for her to get back on her feet and be okay. >> thank you very much. >> mike: alex, thank you. how did police manage to do their jobs in the chaos of some tragedy like this? and what's the legal process and prosecution of the suspect? next i'll bring a panel of legal and law enforcement expe

>> mike: i'm joined by a panel of folks that we assembled together to talk about what happens from here. we are not here to speculate on all of the things that might happen but you to talk about the processes. the judicial and law enforcement processes that will result from this case. joining me are the host of "justice," judge jeanine pirro. she is outside the movie theater today in aurora. dr. william july a clinical psychologist and former police officer and here with me in the

studio at the fox newsquarters peter johnson johnson, jr. andn fleming. judge, let me begin with you and let's talk about the process in colorado or most states about saying that this person did what he did because he was insane versus that it was a criminal intent. that makes a big difference in the way the adjudication will go. >> and there is a lot of speculation right now, governor about whether or not the defendant will proffer andin' sanity defense. we do know that the arraignment is scheduled for monday at 8:30 a.m. but that can possibly change. there are two issues on the table right now. will this defendant be considered competent, that is able to understand the nature of the charges and assist his lawyers in his defense? and then issue number two, will he seek to offer an insanity

defense where the burden of proof then will be on the state of colorado to prove whether or not he is sane. it is a classic mcnaughton rule did this defendant know and understand the nature of his acts and whether they are right or wrong or was he able to actually form the mental state necessary. what is interesting about the colorado statutes, governor, is mental deprivity that rises to the level of insanity cannot grow out of anger, revenge, hatred or evil. it is as though the colorado legislature said if you are so full of hate and anger and you just want people to use insanity as an excuse we are not going to let you do it. we are a long way from knowing what is going to happen but there is a lot of speculation since it clearly seems to be this defendant. >> mike: seems like the burden of proof to get to insanity is

pretty difficult. let's say you were his attorney. how do you approach this as an attorney to represent someone that the whole world hates right now? >> as an attorney he needs a psychiatric examination right away. it is a topsy-turvy burden of proof. the burden season going to be on the state to prove that he is sane once the defendant has asserted the insanity defense. it is also tempered by what is called the irresistible impulse. he could act in a way that seems to be rational in terms of the premeditation that appears to have gone into all of the acts. if hing show we will suffering from an irresist olympic impulse. meaning he would have acted in the same way even if the police officer was at his side then he has a strong opportunity to win on the psychiatric defense.

he needs to be examined immediately to establish that and put all of the medical evidence together in terms of previous treatment and what was exhibiting in terms of these symptoms. >> mike: dr. william july is a forensic psychologist. the question for you, when these kind of things happen one of the concerns is will there be copy cat crimes? is it more likely to happen if we elevate this person by giving his name. as you know i'm not giving his name because i don't want to give him any sense of celebrity. i don't want him to make up and read his name in the paper and hear his name on television and think wow i'm a somebody and some other loser loner out there think wow, i'm somebody, too. might that elevate them in some manner, as perverted as it is? >> absolutely, governor. the problem with something like this is in a situation in which a person who is not mentally or

psychologically stable observes this sort of behavior i think about the situation that happened in europe those things can trigger the copy cats, can empower them and motivate them to think that it is possible to do it in the very same way that a person is motivated to do positive things a person can be motivated to do diabolical things and inspired. we have to be careful of this cult and celebrity in which people became famous for whatever they have done regardless of whether it is a moral or immoral act. >> mike: one of the problems for the police department is maintaining control of the crime scene and chain of evidence. you disturb a lot of the basic crime scene evidence. as a police officer you have dealt with these kind of situations before. what is the primary thing that

officers have to go and do because ultimately they will be in court having to prove there was a chain of evidence and that the evidence was iran clad. >> the primary responsibility is saving lives. so if the crime scene is trodden over during the course of that, it is what it is. you try to protect as much evidence as you can. we see that happening right now in the apartment. there is evidence in the apartment. there is womans up in the apart -- there is comes up in the apartment and it is -- there is bombs up in the apartment. you want to try to keep all of the evidence that you can. talking about controlled blasts and quick putouts. that might happen but if it doesn't have to happen you don't want it to happen because i need that information because i want to know if there is any like minded individuals out there that either he associated himself with or accomplices or maybe someone has a secret pact with him.

if not he is acting as a lone wolf. i need that evidence in that apartment. that is one thing the aurora police department was able to do secure at the apart meant. some of that evidence is going to be tainted. >> mike: we will be rejoined by john, peter, the judge and dr. july when we return are. more with our panel, next.

>> mike: we are back be with the panel. and i just want to have sort of a flee flowing discussion. let me start back with you judge. you are throughout in colorado. i'm sure there is an absolute shock in that community.

what are people saying in terms of their reaction what do they want to happen to this person in their community? >> what are you hearing on streets of colorado? >> governor, it is very interesting. the pain and horror a palpable here in aurora. people are still in a state of shock. they are numb. a lot o of people are just hearing about the deaths of friends and family members so you haven't yet gotten to the point of anger, justice and all that. the police are focused on that because that is their job jinx' so impressed with the p.d. here with the coordinated effort, state, local, federal agencies, fbi, atf, they are putting together a case behind the scenes as other people try to heal each other. as i heard so eloquently stated today. we thought this was a once in a lifetime thing with columbine. how could this happen again to us in colorado? it is just a sad, sad place,

governor. >> mike: john, you had mentioned about the evidence that is in that apartment how critical it is. something happens that evidence is destroyed. how much does that affect the ability to properly prosecute this case? >> well, i think based on the fact pad, i think you can prosecute the case as far as making an argumentr he is sane or not that is a whole another issue. i think pretty much he is guilty as charged but what i was trying to point out in the apartment was there is other evidence that could be inside those hard drives, inside a capture tool like an ipod or iphone that might lead us to other members. i don't know. maybe he has a sect. maybe he has accomplices. maybe there is a plan to carry out further terrorist domestic terrorisms. we don't know. if we do a quick blast in there even with a quick putout we

could lose that evidence. they might have to do it. i don't know. that is not a decision for me to make. i know dan oates he was a chief here in the nypd. very accomplished guy. more than up to the task. but time is on our side. i heard that said time and time again. but it is really not. there is a sense of urgency here to get to that evidence or information that is inside the apartment. >> mike: so peter, obviously the concerns that a lot of people have is what can we do to prevent this. what laws can we create? i'm not sure there is in any law that can prevent people from doing crazy things? >> there are gun control laws and federal laws and laws across the state of colorado that were strengthened after columbine. we can take a harder look at people and react in ways more responsible and more socially responsible when we see abhorrent behavior.

and so i think we have an obligation as a society as human beings, as christians to move ahead and say listen, this is a person who i think needs help. who may be assisted by pharmacology or by treatment or by therapy. i'm hot making excuses for this -- i'm not making excuses for this defendant. if at the same time he is motivated by schizophrenia or depression or psychosis we should stop these things before they happen and family members and friends and school officials and everyone in the communities have that obligation in each and every state across the country you can have someone committed if you believe they are a danger to themselves or to yourself. >> here is the problem. as a judge i made these editions. if i could just finish here. as a judge i made the determination. it is a high standard. people can suspect but getting

a judge to actually do something about it is very, very difficult. peter, i agree with everything you have said but here we had a highly functioning individual who was extremely intelligent who apparently didn't exhibit any of these signs. so. >> we'll see. >> and judge -- >> if i may. if i may. >> mike: i want to get dr. july in here. everybody always says after the event something like this there were certain signs we saw but people weren't talking about it beforehand. what should we look for in a family member or friend. give us the tips to see. >> exactly. right, governor, the judge and peterrer are both making very good points but, however, the, we have to look for signs and take responsibility for family members and for friends. sometimes people will ask me what can i do. here is what you can do. watch do see is someone becoming isolated, withdrawn. do they have dark fantasies and

tell weird jokes and you kind of shrug them off. is there somebody that has behaviors that don't match up with the norm. behaviors tell us a story and when people are acting strange often there is something strange to it. as the judge says we don't live in a society where you can just go lock people up. but family members can take precautions and take actions and get people evaluated. >> mike: a quick final word from you. >> the shooter is responsible for this and liable in the end. all of us have an obligation to do what we can to prevent these incidents so we are not ringing our hands. we can stop this kind of behavior in some cases. we should do the best we can. >> mike: thank you all for being here. i appreciate your perspectives. one behavior that did change is out there on the campaign trail. all of the candidates for office shut down the vitrialic kind of campaigning that we have seen for months and months

and dehe side decided to be cia change. how is it that they can do that and when will we see them go back to the nasty campaigning that we are used to. danna perino talks about campaigns and how they react. and also how a reporter got a little ahead of himself ps headlines log on

to fox news .com. you're watching fox news channel. >> mike: on friday after police released the shooting suspect's name abc news reporter brian ross initially suggested he could be tied to the tea party. here is what ross said. he said there is and he gives the name of aurora colorado page on the colorado tea party site talking about him joining the tea party last year. now, we don't know if this is the same name but it is name of aurora colorado giving the name

get. it wasn't the same man. ross later was forced to apologize for his gaffe as he should have. joining me former white house secretary and cohost of the popular and successful show "the five." dana perino. you have quite a fan club here by the way. i was shocked that brian ross would wrecklessly and irresponsibly make some connection to the tea party without any basis whatsoever to do so. >> not only is that shocking, from a reporter who should get things 100% right but that he went to the tea party website first to see if there was a connection. i actually think that is almost more interesting and then they get it wrong and then have to be forced to apologize. then they wonder why they have journalism has such a low approval rating. when i was the white house

press secretary they used to give us a hard time because of president bush's approval rating. i remember being asked what are you going to do about it. i said there are only two entities in washington that lower approval raidings than george w. bush congress and the media so what are you going to do about it. and they continued to make things worse for themselves and for journalism with things like this. this is not the first time. this happened when congress woman gabrielle giffords was shot. everybody goes to the tea party website to see if there is a connection. i don't know any tea party member whose first and foremost passion is about the second amendment. the fact that they were looking for some connection immediately really is oh h offensive. >> mike: it would be like taking brian ross' name and

saying we know there was a brian ross arrested for child molesting in upstate new york. >> oops, sore. >> karch: the wron sorry, wronn ross. >> is it more important to be right than it is to be first? >> i was the press secretary when the virginia tech shooting happened. when a crisis breaks, first reports are almost always wrong. hold back. wait a minute and let's see what the facts are. be rapid response even from a campaign side on the other side of things used to we the most important aspect and tactic of a campaign and now i think that changed. you have to hold back. and brian ross' peers should be policing one another and i would hope there is a little bit of hanging of the head in shame this morning over this because also abc news helped him walk right into it.

that is what they were looking for was a tea party connection. >> mike: there has been a change in tone in the campaigns. suspended negative advertising. kind of refreshing. >> the right thing to do. >> when will they blink first and think there is time to go back. i think they need to give this a lot of breathing room. we have seven people shot in critical condition. there are are going to be such heart breaking stories it is not something we start talking about something else on even tuesday or wednesday of next week and i think the campaigns have to take a step back. colorado will be a battle ground state but it will not be about this. there will be plenty of time to campaign in the future. they will have to hold back. >> mike: do you think days, weeks? how long? >> i don't know. i think they will just have to see. now, governor, i do think that

president obama will go to colorado and i think he should. in times of crisis people want to see their president. they want to talk to him and though there is -- the care is there and that he is in charge and that is appropriate. mitt romney is about to head out to on a foreign trip going to the olympics in london and then he will be in israel and i don't know if they have other stops along the way. i think that colorado will get a respid from the negative ads. and maybe they won't come back but i have a feeling at some point someone will do it. >> mike: i have a feeling we will see the negative ads again. i hate the tragedy and hate that it would cause something like this to make the campaigns act civil. maybe the american public would appreciate the civility of tone for the next several weeks. >> it gives us perspective with a capital p. the things we arguing about even on the five when we have the robust debates about the

tax returns and whether or not the departure date was 1995 or 2005. those things become trivial. not only an immediate reaction to find out if there was a tea party reaction but the first thing after awful the tragedies is a conversation about gun control. we should be having a conversation about mental health and how do you recognize the signs of somebody who all of a sudden snaps within two months who was a brilliant young person. all of the promise of a future that an american education can give to you and he drops out of society. we have to learn more about him but for all of us to be able to recognize signs of when somebody is about to snap is probably a better use of our time than the gun control debate. >> mike: very well said. treaterve tasty food and customers and employees with

respect. but chick-fil-a came under fire. the founder will talk about the success of his business and also address the controversy, when we return. stay with us. [ male announcer ] what if you had thermal night-vision goggles,

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chick-fil-a operated its business around biblical principles and now have over 1600 stores all over america and close every sunday so employees can go to church. they have come under fire recently after supporting organizations that defend traditional values that seem to be simple to me. the founder of chick-fil-a has a wonderful book and called wealth is it worth it. he joins me now. mr. cathy, it is an honor to have you here today. >> my pleasure. >> mike: chick-fil-a not its start when you were 46 years old. what is the origin and genesis of the company that made a dent in america? >> brought up in the deep devotion and i realized if i ever had anything i had to work

for it. so which opened up our first restaurant in 1946. with a very minor investment there of $10,600. $4,000 my brother and i had. $6,600 loaned. it is all i had. make it 24 hours a day, 6 days a week. for that time we chose to close on sunday for people that wanted to go to church. not required but it has been a blessing for us. and if you work 24 hours a day for six days you are ready for a break. >> mike: i think you deserve one. i think it is remarkable that you have operated your company consistently. a privately held company. your family still controls it but you decided that you will continue to operate when there is so much pressure on you to open on sundays and kind of say look, it is 2012 and let's get

beyond the old values o '50s and '60s. how are you been able to swim against the tide? >> i about been firm in my convictions and closed on sunday from the very beginning. i guess i lost a lot of just a couple of operations but it was -- they understood and if i'm going in that mall i will close on sunday. >> mike: you book talks about wealth and is it worth it. you have a wonderful testimony on the back of the book from warren buffett. i think he is a friend of yours. what is the most important secret if there is is a secret that you learned about good business that you would share with us. then it is not going to be a secret but share it anyway.

>> based on biblical principles. treat your customers like you like to be treated. you like to be greeted with smiling faces and a serving spirit. and if they say thank you we in return say it is my pleasure and that turns people on. you don't hear that very often in fast food. >> mike: is there any particular challenge that you face in the business world today that makes it harder than it was when you started back in 1946? >> i find people can do anything if they want to. you have to pay a temporary price for seeing something greater in the future. it is being consistent. have goals set for yourself and don't let it stop you. if you have a lot of disappointments and i would always look for a job where i didn't have to do much work and get a lot of pay. but i don't find them out there. >> mike: none of the rest of us have either, mr. cathy.

there has been controversy. absurd to me that there was ever controversy in that one of your sons took a position which is a position that most of us in america take regarding traditional values. there is criticism. most of us in america appreciate that tree dom of speech still lives. you treat every person who comes in your store the same. no exceptions. you never turned any one away. >> right. >> i don't know why any one would be upset with chick-fil-a because of the manner in which you treat not only your employees but each customer. >> we like to feed hungry people regardless of circumstances. any time you come in my door we going to serve you. >> mike: and you you have done it well. i would love to, first of all, let the audience know you will get a copy of truett cathy's wonderful book is it worth it. it occurs to me sometimes when

people stand up for biblical world view and godly principles we sometimes let them out there on their own. i think it would be great in the light of attack they have been under attack the past few days if everybody appreciates a business who stands up for good things, maybe wednesday august 1 could be let's go to chick-fil-a day in america. i will go to my facebook and twitter account. you don'tster to honk a horn or carry a sign. not a political statement. just a thank you you to a company that operated with integrity and provided sound business practices and treated everybody with the dignity that every rue man being deserves and i think that deserves the respect. if you have a great day august 1, wednesday, know that it started here. >> remind people we are open six days a week. they don't have to do it

wednesday. >> mike: they can come any day. beat the rush. this is why success. he wants you to come all six days. mr. cathy, great to have you here. >> we want to make them happier. >> you you certainly have. coming up, your comments and my closing thoughts on the tragedy in aurora, colorado. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] if you had a dollar for every dollar car insurance companies say they'll save yoby switching, you'd have like, a ton of dollars. but how are they saving you those dollars? a lot of companies might answer "um" or, "no comment." then there's esurance. born online, raised by technology, and majors in efficiency. so whatever they save, you save. hassle, time, paperwork, hair-tearing-out, and yes, especially dollars. esurance. insurance for the modern world. click or call.

>> mike: many of you have taken to my facebook page. you have shared comments in the aftermath of the aurora, colorado shootings and i want to try to address some of the things that you said and i always appreciate what you say and post on facebook as well as the e-mails that you send us. we do take them seriously.

we received this from ginger. she said my son was at a screening in our town last night. you go to the theater to relax and enjoy. and never think such a horrific thing is going happen and you realize outraged fragile we truly are. i think that is what touches all of americans during this time is that we do realize life is precious, it is fragile and every single day we need to cherish and every moment we need to value and cherish that, too. we may think that we have tomorrow but we don't. we only have right now. david says i also feel for the troops that die for this country but don't make much of a news story. they are flying the flag at half staff and i agree but every time a soldier gets killed shouldn't the flag be lowered for them? >> david, there is no group of americans for whom i have the greatest respect as i do the military because they put their lives on the line for us knowingly willingly.

it is a tragic and horrible thing when innocent people are killed. they didn't think they were putting their lives on the line. just going a movie or maybe going to church if the shooting happened there or going to campus if it was virginia tech. soldiers go into their daily job knowing they well may be asked to give their lives for their country. there is nothing we can do that is adequate enough to thank them for their service. >> dan writes and says do you think banning guns will help keep weapons out of a criminal's hands? >> the first family. cain and able. it wasn't a gun issue. it was an issue of the brokennest of the human heart. i think we need to recognize frankly there are more suicides in america than there are murders every year. the fact is we live in a violent world on the likelihood that you are going to be killed by a gun is statistically very,

very remote. far more likely you would be killed by an automobile or even drowning than you would be by a gun. you can control guns but ultimately you got to control people's hearts and that is something i think only god can do. pamela rights and says news in the media these -- news is immediate and these nut cases are instant infamous celebrities. >> i have not given the name of the shooter and have no intentions to. i don't want to make celebrities of these people. i would rather we forget them and remember those who have gotten h hurt. tammy says this world gets worse each day. it is awful and tragic. may god comfort these families. i can't agree more. if there is someone thing that i hope that we will see is that rather than say gosh, we live in a broken horrible culture maybe that is true in some

ways. you know what i would like to think about? i would like to think of the fact that milonli of americans stopped what they were doing and offered a prayer for the people who have opinion hurt. i would like to think even two presidential campaigns filled with bitter and angry statements about each other suspended all of that. what when you want to talk about is america broken? we have got our you faults but also we have seen what makes this a great country. good, doesn't, ordinary, nameless, faceless people who remember what it is to care about their neighbor. that is what i would like for us to think about. and i hope you will. until next time, from new york, this is mike huckabee, good captioned by closed captioning services, inc.